James: When we’re talking about this, the product right now is less important to me. More important is the expression of the community and how they can help educate where this brand goes next. It’s a very symbiotic learning experience, whether it’s positive, negative, or somewhere in between. Vidal approached it in a really phenomenal way. He is such a passionate believer about what he represents, and that’s a very powerful message to not dismiss. You want to get that feedback live.
Going off that, what was your casting process?
Rob: So James and I had our team share possible models for the campaign and they were all the traditionally youthful, curated folks with massive followings. I could hear James’ frustration and it got to the point where he was like, “I don’t think you’re listening. I want real people with real stories. I don’t care how many followers they have. I want folks to come into this campaign and tell their story and share their narratives.” And he wanted a raw uncut version of their narratives. I respected that and that’s when I really knew that James was the right partner, because it was about the story.
Finally, I want to ask about G.E.T. Phluid (Gender Expansive Training), Rob’s initiative to help educate entire companies on the many different aspects of gender expression.
Rob: The thing that irks me is the idea of this just being a “marketing campaign.” It’s not done with the consideration of the community that it’s meant to serve. It’s just like, “Hey, okay, gender-neutral fashion is trending, so let’s market it or let’s throw a capsule up there to see what happens.” But it is a movement, not a trend, and to fully understand it, you can’t just jump into it half-assed. You have to fully throw yourself and your organization into it. And that’s what I respect about Equipment. They’re like, “Hey, listen, here’s our thought process, here’s what we’re thinking about, here’s why we want to do this from a really substantive place.”
James: I’ve luckily had a chance to do some phenomenal things in this industry, and when you watch the industry grow and be used for progressive ways, it’s a very rewarding feeling. To be a part of this is inspiring for so many reasons, but it doesn’t just end today. It has to continue. And one of the reasons why The Collected Group as a whole is working on its accreditation with G.E.T. Phluid is we need to be representative of what culture looks like, even in our business. There are so many people that rush to the finish line. If you have an opening in any business, the goal is to get it filled as quickly as possible. I don’t know how many people sit back and say, “How do I fill that opening with a diverse culture that represents what we stand for?” I don’t think I thought it that way. I don’t think many organizations can afford to think of it that way.
But I hope that with Rob’s certification program, more organizations will take a lengthier stand to say, “This does make sense.” We have to be able to evolve this industry so that our environments can be safe-havens for a non-binary workforce to exist. I don’t know what that looks like yet. Absolutely, there is work to be done. But it starts right now with getting educated and making sure we can not only welcome in a workforce that is representative of the community, but one that feels safe and does justice to what we want to build.
Rob: Once we create a safe space for folks to enter the workforce, for them to really be at the table, sharing and representing their communities, my job is not needed anymore. I can step away and say, “You know what? You’ve got the right people in the room now. I can step away now. My work is done.” And then I can move on to the next place.
Interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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